More goodies from the mailbag. Laura wrote:
I recently came across the Mary Francis Knitting and Crocheting Book. It is darling! Even though the credits don’t specify, I assume it’s a reprint of a book originally written around 1920. Woven within the story are quite extensive photo demos of knitting and crochet, along with many patterns for doll clothes, and even Red Cross knitting patterns. The text of the book describes yarns as 2-fold, 3-fold or 4-fold, and appear to be referring to what we would call ‘ply’ today–though perhaps more in the UK style. The book then goes on to say that yarns are named Germantown Zephyr or Germantown Wool (4-fold or 8-fold), Knitting Worsted, Saxony Wool, Woolen Knitting Floss, Teazle Yarn, or Angora Wool. Would you have any info on what the modern equivalents of these might be? Any references to point me toward? I did a google search, but mostly came up with “Bear Brand Germantown Yarns,” a few skeins of which have retired in my stash….It would seem that Germantown could refer to worsted weight or heavier (about a 3 or 4 in the modern number scheme trying to standardize the industry), Saxony might be more of a baby or sport weight (2ish, I suppose) and Knitting Floss might be more like Shetland yarns–lace or baby/fingering weight (1 or 2ish, I’m thinking).
I know there are lots of people now interested in older knitting patterns – everything from ponchos published in the 1970s through the truly vintage stuff going back to the late 1800s. The older the book, the harder it can be to figure out how to make the garment using today’s materials. Laura’s problem is a very common one for anyone looking at these older patterns.
I can’t claim to be an expert on this on this, but I have had a little bit of experience with legacy/historical patterns. From my limited exposure, Laura’s guesses are spot on.
For the yarns described in her book, Germantown’s closest equivalent is true worsted (not just something within the group system 3 or 4 designation; (the group system being a lousy method yarn classification – 2021 update and elaboration of my 2004 rant here). The closest modern yarn is Cascade 220 – a 100% wool that knits at 5 stitches per inch. Many patterns call for that size yarn to be doubled. I’ve had good results using either a true worsted, or even a lofty DK when the pattern calls for knitting with two strands.
Saxony was often used for baby items, knit on 15s or 16s. The modern needle size equivalent would be 00s or an size in between 00 and 000. I’ve had success substituting modern three-ply fingering or baby yarn. (4-ply fingering is standard sock weight, knitting at 28 stitches = 4 inches, 3-ply is lighter, usually knitting at 32 stitches = 4 inches.) Perhaps Jamieson Shetland Spindrift might work, being lofty and able to be knit down to that gauge. Brown Sheep WildFoote is one of the lightest sock yarns around now that Kroy 3 Ply is discontinued. Froelich Wolle Special Blauband is also on the thin end of the fingering spectrum. Much thicker and denser but machine washable is Dale Baby Ull. Knit tightly it might work, but I think that the Spindrift or Wildfoote would have a more historically accurate look.
I also suspect that Knitting Floss is lace weight. Skacel Merino Lace might make a good substitute.
Teazle, and Angora Wool are tougher. My suggestion would be to look at the needle size and gauge. Since most historical patterns don’t give gauge, are sized fairly small and fit FAR tighter than modern ones, the best way to figure out gauge is to look at the stitch count around the wrist or cuff rather than around the chest. Fit on wrists don’t change much, nor is ease generally a big factor there. Compare whatever you get to the wrist measurement of a modern piece – women’s small, men’s small, or children’s about size 6 for post-baby garments. Using that measurement roughly estimate how many stitches per inch the piece had just above the ribbing.
I’ve been working on this chart for a while, collecting historical yarn names and modern gauge/needle size equivalents. Also some suggestions on possible modern yarns. I started with some needle size data abstracted from Lois Baker’s highly useful comparative needle chart. Most of the historical yarn types I cite are from patterns before the 1930s. Note that these are not hard and fast categorizations, many yarns/needle sizes can slip up or down a peg. Also note that texture is difficult to match. I have no way of knowing if one yarn type was say, closer in feel to Spindrift than it is to Regia. Feel free to attach corrections/additions in the comments. I’ll update the chart body and put a link to it under ‘Reference’ at right.
For yarns from the 1950s through 1970s, VintageKnits maintained a very useful guide to fiber content and actual gauges of specific yarn brand names. It’s divided roughly by weight into several pages.
|
Historical Needle Size |
Modern Needle Size |
Expected Gauge |
Typical Historical Yarn Names |
Possible Modern Substitutes |
| 0.25mm | 1 ply Cobweb wool Cotton thread |
|||
| UK 24 | 0.5mm
US #00000000 (8/0) |
1 ply Cobweb wool Cotton thread |
Size 80 cotton | |
| UK 22 | 0.75mm
US #000000 (6/0) |
1 ply Cobweb wool Cotton thread |
Wool Floss Spool Cotton Knitting cotton |
|
| UK 19 US 18 Steel |
1.0mm US #00000 (5/0) |
1 ply Cobweb wool Cotton thread |
Size 50-80 cotton Jamieson 1-Ply Cobweb Wool |
|
| US 17 Steel | 1.125mm | 1 ply Cobweb wool Cotton thread |
||
| UK 18 US 16 Steel |
1.25mm US #0000 |
2 ply Lace weight Cotton thread |
Berlin Wool Briggs Knitting Silk |
Size 50 cotton Skacel Merino Lace |
| UK 17 US 15 Steel |
1.5mm US #000 |
2 ply Lace weight Cotton thread |
Berlin Wool, Andalusian Wool | Size 30 cotton Skacel Merino Lace Lorna’s Laces Helen’s Lace |
| UK 15 US 14 Steel |
1.75mm US #00 |
3 ply Fingering Light Fingering 30-32 st = 4 in |
Saxony, Shetland, Pompador, German Fingering, Alliance |
Jamieson Shetland Spindrift, Brown Sheep Wildfoote, Dale Baby Ull (knit very tightly), Kroy 3-Ply Most of |
| UK 14 US 13 Steel US 0 Standard |
2mm US #0 |
3 ply Fingering Light Fingering 30-32 st = 4 in 4 ply Fingering |
Saxony, Zephyr, | Jamieson Shetland Spindrift; Kroy 3-Ply
Most of the lighter weight sock yarns |
| UK 13 US 12 Steel |
2.25mm
US #1 (some) |
3 ply Fingering Light Fingering 30-32 st = 4 in 4 ply Fingering |
Saxony, Zephyr, Cocoon | Jamieson Shetland Spindrift; Kroy 3-Ply Dale Baby Ull (knit very tightly) Most of the lighter weight sock yarns Most standard sock yarns; Rowan 4 ply yarns |
| US 1 Standard | 2.5mm
US #1 (most) |
4 ply Fingering 28-30 st = 4in |
Saxony, Beehive, Penelope | Most standard sock yarns; Rowan 4 ply yarns |
| UK 12 US 11 Steel US 2 Standard |
2.75 mm US #2 |
4 ply Fingering 28-30 st = 4 in |
Beehive, Peacock, Penelope | Most standard sock yarns; Rowan 4 ply yarns |
| UK 11 US 10 Steel US 3 Standard |
3mm
US #3 (some) |
4 ply Fingering 28-30 st = 4 in Lighter sport weights |
Koigu; GGH Marathon; Zitron Libero |
|
| UK 10 | 3.25mm US #3 (most) |
Sport weight 24 st = 4 inches |
Louet Gems Opal Merino; Jaeger Matchmaker |
|
| US 9 Steel
US 4 Standard |
3.5mm
US #4 |
Sport weight 24 st = 4 in |
Louet Gems Opal Merin; Jaeger Matchmaker |
|
| UK 9 US 8 Steel US 5Standard |
3.75mm US #5 |
Gansey weight, 5-ply 23 st = 4 in |
Jumper wool | Wendy Guernsey 5 Ply |
| UK 8 | 4mm US #6 |
DK weight 22 st = 4 in |
Germantown, Zephyr, Saxony doubled |
Jaeger Matchmaker DK; Jo Sharp DK Wool; Most standard DK weight yarns; Most 4 ply fingering weights, doubled |
| US 6 Standard | 4.25mm | DK weight 22-21 st = 4 in |
Lighter airy worsteds, heavy cable spun DKs, most 4 ply fingering weights doubled Whatever can be knit to just under regulation worsted weight |
|
| UK 7 | 4.5mm US #7 |
Worsted 20 st = 4 in |
Germantown | Cascade 220 |
| US 7 Standard | 4. 75mm | Worsted 20 st = 4 in |
||
| UK 6 US 8 Standard |
5mm US #8 |
Heavy worsted
19 st = 4 inches Aran |
Most standard Aran weight yarns; Most standard sport weight yarn, doubled; Most standard mass market yarns labeled “Worsted” with on-label gauges of 19-18 stitches over 4 inches (10cm) |
|
| UK 5 (some) US 9 Standard |
5.25mm | Aran 18 st = 4 inches |
||
| UK 5 | 5.5mm US #9 |
Light bulky 17-16 st = 4 in |
||
| US 10 Standard (some) | 5.75mm | Light bulky 17-16 st = 4 in |
||
| UK 4
US 10 Standard |
6mm
US #10 |
Light bulky 17-16 st = 4 in |
||
| UK 3
US 10 1/2 Standard |
6.5mm US #10 1/2 (some) |
Bulky 15-13 st = 4 in |
Germantown doubled | Two strands of Cascade 220; Most standard worsteds, doubled |
| UK 2 | 7mm
US #10 1/2 (some) |
11Bulky 15-13 st = 4 in |
||
| UK 1 | 7.5mm | 11Bulky 15-13 st = 4 in |
||
| UK 0 | 8mm
US #11 |
Bulky 15-13 st = 4 in |
||
| UK 00 | 9mm US #13 |
Super bulky 12 or fewer st = 4 in |
||
| UK 000 | 10mm US #15 |
Super bulky 12 or fewer st = 4 in |
||
| 12.5mm US #17 |
Ultra 10 or fewer st = 4 in |
|||
| 14mm US #18 |
Ultra 10 or fewer st = 4 in |
|||
| 15.5mm
US #19 |
Ultra 8 or fewer st = 4 in |
|||
| 19mm US #35 |
Ultra 8 or fewer st = 4 in |
|||
| 25mm US #50 |
6 or fewer st = 4 in |
String-Or-Nothing 
[…] know that lots of folks who visit here are looking for my chart of vintage needle sizes, historical yarns as plotted against gauge and modern needle sizes (with a few modern yarn recommendations). That chart was ported over in the Great Blog […]
This is a great chart! I have a potholder pattern from 1946 by J. & P. Coats that calls for “Crochet cord”. Any idea what this is, or what it might equate to in present day products? Thanks in advance for your help!
Hmmm…. Very hard to say without seeing the pattern. But I suspect one of the cotton crochet threads. You may get a good match from looking at the recommended crochet hook size. For example, a commonly recommended hook size for potholders was a US Steel #6, which translates to a modern metric size of about 1.8mm. For a #6/1.8mm hook, a thread of size 10 would be appropriate. Coats & Clarks classic Knit Cro Sheen thread is a size 10.
One last silly thought – this is a potholder and doesn’t need to actually fit anyone. Since a gauge swatch is almost as big as a potholder, just take your thread and hook and just make one. If it’s too small to be an effective potholder, tell everyone it’s a mug coaster, then try again with a larger thread and hook. 🙂
Thanks for your Germantown wool information. I just acquired a 1944 pattern for an 18″ rag doll which calls for 18 yards of 4-fold Germantown wool for her hair. The instructions say to cut 22 strands 21″ long, place close together and stitch through the center. Attach to dolls head for partial wig and braids. For her bangs, cut a piece of cardboard 1 3/4″ by 4″ and wrap 3 3/4 yards of wool around it, without overlapping, to make a strip about 4″ long.
Hope this might help to clafify the gauge of this wool.
I have a 1918 copy of the Handbook of Wool Knitting and Crochet. From experimentation and research, I have generally figured out the most common yarns.
Zephyr, according to my 1913 dictionary, refers to a fine, soft “Cassemir”yarn. The nearest I can find in modern yarn is a 2 or 3 ply lightweight cashmere yarn that is only slightly heavier than sock yarn, but not quite as heavy as a the next class of yarn. In a pinch, doubled up sock yarn will do.
Shetland floss is usually 2 ply, lightweight or very lightweight yarn. Closest I have found is wool sock yarn.
Germantown simply refers to the mills in Germantown, Pennsylvania. Germantown wool is a description of the type of yarn. There were many yarns produced in this region. The ply is the key here. 4 ply/4 fold is pretty close to our modern worsted or a tighter fisherman’s merino wool. 8 fold is thicker, closer to our modern “bulky” or “chunky” yarns, but retaining the coarser wool texture.
The fine crochet cotton used in my book is usually a mercerized, 6 ply, no. 15. This can still be found today.
Saxony yarn is recommended in the book for baby booties and doll clothes. It is a 3 ply yarn made of fine wool. Still available today. Finer than worsted or fishermans wool, closer to a sportweight due to its fine texture.
Gotta love old yarn.
Thank you for the info this is very useful and nice of you!
Teazle could be mohair yarn. Teasles were (and may still be) used to brush up the nap on mohair weavings and yarn.
Hi can anyone help I have a victorian baby shawl pattern that requires 6 balls of Queens Imperial wool made by Messrs. I have no clue what to substitute this with
Looking to see if I can track something down. “Messrs.” is usually followed by a surname, like “Messrs. Appleton and Company”. Do you have the rest of the makers’ name?
OK. A bit of searching found a pattern circa 1904 which called for your yarn, that has been knit up by folks in the past few years. They all use two-ply lace weight or cobweb lace yarns, but I can’t find a yardage for the Queen’s Imperial. Best I can do is report finished shawl consumptions for those projects.
A rectangular shawl, roughly 80 inches x 35 inches after blocking with a simple diamond patterning and edging. Knitters reported these yarns and consumptions.
Filatura di Crosa Golden Line Superior. 4 skeins, 1312 yards (1999.7 meters) total. 100 grams
Rowan Fine Lace. 2.95 skeins, about 1285 yards total (1175 meters)
Yarn Place Gentle. 2 skeins, about 1380 yards (1262 meters) total. 100 grams
Rowan Kidsilk Haze. 6 skeins, about 1374 yards (1256 meters) total, 150 grams
Unique Sheep Aurora 1 skein, about 1275 yards (1164 meters) total. 100 grams
So it looks like the projects use between 1275 and 1400 yards of a thin laceweight or cobweb yarn. Since I don’t know the finished size, shape, or complexity of your pattern it’s hard to make a solid estimate. But if I were knitting this, I would err on the side of overkill and buy about 2000 yards (about 1828 meters) of a light laceweight or cobweb (however many skeins of my chosen yarn that turned out to be – go by yardage, not by number of balls). Yes, I would probably have enough left over to make another smaller project, but I wouldn’t worry about running out.
Thanks for this info its very helpful
The pattern I have states 6oz but as you say I will buy extra.. Here’s the link to the patterns
https://vintagevisage.co.uk/category_214_Baby-shawl-patterns_alpha-asc_12_0
Many thanks again for taking the time to research this info its greatly appreciated
Six ounces is about 170 grams. But that tells you nothing without knowing the thickness of the yarn. I am unsure which pattern on that site is the one you want to knit and I am unwilling to pay to download them all, but all look to be suitable for the yarn weights I recommended. Go by yardage not skein weight and you should be ok.
I will do that, thank you
Hi there!
Does anyone know what size crochet hook and yarn weight this pattern calls for? It’s late Victorian. Another pattern I’m working on is Edwardian and it calls for “1 bone crochet hook, number 3”, and I tried making the sweater pattern with a 4mm hook and worsted weight yarn, and it looked tiny, as if made for an infant or small child hahaha. Thanks in advance for the help.
Just realised I forgot the link to my above comment (whoops!): https://www.pinterest.com/pin/256494141253782692/
I’d suspect that “4-ply fleecy” isn’t worsted weight – it’s probably more like fingering, but an airy fingering like Shetland, and not a hard finish one like the type used for socks. I’d also suspect that the size would be quite small. Probably the equivalent of a modern size 6-8, tops. And deducing from the engraving, the the stitch count and directions this is a rather loose and lacy construction, and not a tightly worked, solid fabric. It also looks like a ribbon is laced into an insertion band of widely spaced DCs as the “fancy border”.
The pattern specifies a Walker’s Penelope (gauge) needle, size 000, “being the largest size made in steel”. If it’s on the old UK system, that would be pretty big – something like a 13mm/size M hook or possibly even larger.
Finally, it does look like the pattern might be incomplete. They give directions for the jacket body front, or at least one side of it, but don’t mention making a second for the other side; there are no instructions for the back (which you might be able to do by doubling the instructions for the front), nor are there instructions for the sleeves.
Although there is no source notation for this image in the archive citation, the image does have the pencilmark PET OCT 1864. So I went to the Hathi Trust presentation of Princeton University Library’s on-line collection of back editions of Petersons. Magazine for that date. And in the file below I found the whole pattern, which runs on for another page and a quarter after this one.
https://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/pt?id=njp.32101076519956&view=1up&seq=746&q1=%22winter%20jacket%22
Enjoy!
This has been super helpful for a beginner in historical knitting. Also I spotted $nbsp; 3 times in the chart above – is this a code? a format issue? Just wondered if it was supposed to be something. Thanks, Peta
An artifact that happened when I ported 14 years of archived posts from my former hosting service to the current one. Unfortunately there is no way to get rid of them all automatically, so I have to hand edit every old post in HTML. That’s a big chore, and I am slowly chomping along doing it. I’ll clean up this one later today. Apologies.
Fixed. I also updated the reference links so they all work.
Thanks – sadly I still get the same thing when I went back on to the form. Not sure if its something my end that’s not working then. I’ve taken a screenshot of what I see. If it is at my end if you could just tell me what is supposed to be in those 3 spaces and I’ll make a note for myself. Thanks, Peta
I would but I have no idea what three spaces you are talking about. I don’t see any three space intervals, and searching for three consecutive spaces doesn’t pull a result. Could you cite the line please?
Apologies – obviously my screenshot didn’t make it. So I’ll try and describe the first, 4th and 5th column on the 2 lines that are affected for me:
UK 19 – $nbsp – size 50-80 cotton
US17 – $nbsp – $nbsp
UK 22 and above are fine as are UK 18 and below. Thanks
The UK 19 line reads across:
First box: UK 19, US 18 Steel
Second box: 1.0mm, US #00000 (5/0)
Third box: 1 ply cobweb wool, Cotton thread
Fourth box: blank
Fifth box: blank
US 17 line across reads:
First box: US 17 Steel
Second box: 1.125mm
Third box: 1 ply Cobweb wool, Cotton thread
Fourth box: blank
Fifth box: blank
Also, now that I know where the non-breaking space marks were (they were invisible on the editing screen), I killed them.
Hope this helps.
Thanks – so no secret code! Just a blank box 🤣
Hi. A pattern in the Priscilla Wool Crochet Book 1912, has a square shawl pattern that requires Ice Wool and a medium hook. I can’t find any information about Ice Wool but judging by the picture it looks quite fine with a loose stitch. If anyone has any information about Ice Wool and it’s equivalent, it would be appreciated. I am also presuming that these wools would all be 100% wool?
Hi Joanna,
From what I’ve seen, Ice Wool is a type of wool, not a brand name unique to Priscilla. It was a 100% wool yarn (this is before Nylon and other non-wool additives); a two-ply construction, soft and quite lustrous. It was sold in one-ounce balls, and was roughly the equivalent of a fine sock yarn/fingering, or a very fine baby weight yarn, with a knit gauge of roughly 7-10+ stitches per inch on 1.5 to 2.5mm needles, perhaps a bit lacier on slightly larger needles. I’d look for a very smooth two-ply all Merino wool yarn at that gauge as your best bet.
In the old ply-weight equivalent system (nothing to do with actual yarn construction), I’d guess that it would be a 3-ply yarn, 4-ply at most (4-ply is what most classic finish modern sock yarns are), Sadly the wildly misleading contemporary Craft Council yarn weight system is useless here. They’d call yarn of this type either a 0 or a 1, a range that includes everything from gossamer fine lace weight to sturdy yarns used for hiking socks.
Here’s one of the references I found for another maker’s Ice Wool:
https://thegreygal.com/vintage-yarn-resources/fleishers-yarn-information/listing-of-fleisher-yarns-1890s-1950s/
Hope this helps!
Thank you so much for taking the time to give me such detailed information.
[…] about all the crazy yarn names? The Vintage Yarns blog has a chart that talks about […]
[…] yarn called for in the pattern is “Shetland Wool”. Back to Google lead me to Vintage Yarns/String-Or-Nothing and another chart. This chart had needle sizes along with the historical names of yarn and modern […]